Ryan Plan Vs. Obama Plan

Posted: August 30th, 2012 | Author: | Filed under: 2012 Presidential Politics | Tags: , , | 21 Comments »

21 Comments on “Ryan Plan Vs. Obama Plan”

  1. Joe Killeen said at 11:12 am on August 30th, 2012:

    Fox News on Paul Ryan speech.


  2. Art Gallagher said at 11:26 am on August 30th, 2012:

    Dazzling, Deceiving and Distracting

    While I disagree, with the OpEd, those three D’s perfectly describe Obama’s 2008 campaign.

    MSNBC’s Lawrennce O’Donnell, who agrees with the piece, said last night that the speech as brilliant and that Team Obama is in trouble

  3. brian said at 11:42 am on August 30th, 2012:

    Will the Dims be discussing the “war on women” or gay marriage during the 2 hour lslamic fest???? are they the example of tolerance??? The day they hired Sally Kohn i sold all my shares of Newscorp–talk about dishonest………………even Milhous admits to taking $millions from Medicare but it’s a lie??? SMH

  4. brian said at 11:48 am on August 30th, 2012:

    Will women be able to attend without headgear?? Can gays attend with their heads on????

  5. Joe Killeen said at 11:53 am on August 30th, 2012:

    Florida- bought for $5 million of federal government money. Made accessible for development with decade long Indian Wars financed by Federal funds.

    Railroads- subsidized and incentivized to be built throughout the 1850 through the 1890’s by some serious federal actions and direct payments. Florida often cited as the land climate and railroads started.
    In 1862 while the Civil War was going on the Federal government, under a Republican administration, tooled up the resources to subsidize and pay for a transcontinental railroad, the successor of which is moving product back and forth throughout the US today.
    Two private companies were formed and the Federal Government besides giving them huge land grants also paid them to build track they would own the following rates in 1860 dollars-
    Per mile rate paid by federal government to private companies who built it- with immigrant labor allowed into the country by same Federal government-
    Flat mile- $16,000.00
    Hilly Mile- $32,000.00
    Mountainous mile- $48,000.00
    “We Built It” alright but just not alone and not by the hair of our chinny, chin, chins.

  6. Bob English said at 12:24 pm on August 30th, 2012:

    Ms. Kohns facts appear to me to be 100% correct. If anyone feels otherwise, they should post specifics.

    Anyone have any idea what Mr. Ryan is trying to say/imply regarding the GM plant in his district he keeps talking about? I think by now the entire world knows that GM announced it was closing the plant in the middle of 2008 with almost all production (besides a skeleton crew) ceasing in December of 2008.

  7. brian said at 1:15 pm on August 30th, 2012:

    1) by his OWN WORDS Milhous admits to cutting over $700 million to medicare, confirmed by the CBO (double-counting)
    2) lf Bush caused the recession, Milhous caused the downgrade—you can’t have it both ways
    3) explain how an across the board 20% tax cut raises taxes???
    that’s three false premises to start

  8. Bob English said at 2:06 pm on August 30th, 2012:

    1) Whatever you want to call it, $716 billion would be the savings on future Medicare reimbursement rates which would be obtained though efficiencies and eliminating waste. That certainly seems like a good idea to me no matter whether you are a D or an R. How is that double counting anything?

    Note that Ryans budget also accounts for the $716 billion savings/”cut” although he and Romney now say they would restore the so called “cut”. Doing that would reduce the solvency of Medicare by 8 years. That certainly sounds like double something (maybe doublespeak) to me!!

    2) The link below has a pretty honost report including quotes from S&P on the US credit downgrade. Seems like a major factor was not raising the debt ceiling until the very last minute which for better or worse was always done in the past no matter who was President.


    3) Romney/Ryan have yet to give any specifics as to how they would pay for the $3-$5 trillion tax cuts they are proposing. Since nobody believes that trickle down works (it was actually trickle up) there is certainly a worry that the poor and middle class would have to assume a larger burden to make up for the corporate tax rate being cut and not letting the top tax rate from the Bush tax cuts expire.) Note that under the Presidents plan, 98% of Americans would keep the Bush Tax Cut rates.

    At any rate, Romney/Ryan need to provide more exact detail on how they pay for their tax cuts otherwise people are just going to speculate. Are other deductions/loopholes being eliminated?? Do those affect the middle class?? Specifically what are the spending cuts?? Who is affected by those??

    Everybody loves taxcuts but the new rule needs to be “exactly how are they being paid for” otherwise the deficit/debt situation can just go from very bad to much worse. Same rule needs to apply for wars. Whomever is President no matter if they are a D or R, needs to stand in front of the American people and tell them how the war(s) will be paid for prior to the country getting involved.

  9. Joe Killeen said at 3:28 pm on August 30th, 2012:

    It gets harder and harder to stay away from speaking directly to the active members of this blog every time I recall Tuesday night’s self pleasuring fantasy of “We Built It.”

    In addition to Federal land purchases and subsidies for infrastructure development to private corporations, the personal relationship between Paul Ryan’s family business and personal, publically paid, for profession since graduating from publically supported schools, I also need to point out the “leases” of public lands that the expansion of is being touted as the road to energy independence and economic development.
    The same largess that has since the establishment of a central, federal government in 1789 continues on today. The “leases” given out for private corporations to drill for a commodity, a product, that they capitalize on, belong to the people of the country, not to the private corporations and political cronies of those corporations.
    Without these “leases” the corporations that we are told over and over again, Built It, would not have the commodity to sell back to us and manage to accumulate their never before realized heights of quarterly profits.
    While at the same time enjoying over $5 Billion in subsidies and tax breaks to extract and produce the already under priced raw product obtained from “leases” on public lands.
    To reach into the history books once more, the owners of the Union Pacific railroad, who were paid to build by the federal government, the miles of track they would then own also formed some ancillary corporations along the miles of track they were laying.
    One mining concern, a private corporation with corporate descendants publically traded today, managed to “build it themselves” and using the “land grants” given by the government and the Infrastructure, paid for by the government, and had a commodity, coal, that with their all in extraction cost of $2.00 per ton for coal. They then sold it to their railroad corporation for $6.00 per ton.
    A rather large profit margin no matter what year dollars one chooses to use.
    Larger even than the minimal 22% profit expected and sought by venture capital funds like Bain Capital in the 1990’s.
    The mining off shoots of the private companies that were subsidized and paid directly by the federal government made margins in the hundreds of percentiles to their subsidized costs and their corporate descendants line up to take advantage of today’s below value “leases” that are not part of the We Built It sloganeering coming from Tampa.
    In the 1890’s when the railroad and steel based financial bubble burst, it was these same “We Built It” ancestors of today’s financial wizards who ran to the government and asked for federal and state protection from their own workers who refused to accept the burden of a failed economic policy.
    It is an insult to every man, woman and child in this country who hasn’t drunk the kool aid, that has been the only thing to trickle down over the last 31 years from Dutch’s mouth, to blast the BIG LIE across the landscape, paid for by the disposable billions of the corporate descendants of these early 19th century Robber Barons, and then insist on telling them how stupid they are when they don’t buy into it.
    The only thing “We Built It” refers to is the fog and spin that covers and deludes the assembled converts who fail to understand the lessons of history and are hell bent on repeating them.

  10. BZZZZZZZZZZZT. WRONG Again Bobbie Boy said at 4:03 pm on August 30th, 2012:

    On that Janesville GM Plant


    “Obama was in Janesville. February 13, 2008 is, like, 11 months before he’s immaculated. “I believe if our government’s there to support you and give you the assistance you need to retool and make this transition, that this plant will be here for another hundred years.” Well, he’s implying that if I am there — if I’m the government — I’m gonna support you; and I’m gonna give you the assistance you need to retool and keep this place open for a hundred years.

    Obama was in Janesville. February 13, 2008 is, like, 11 months before he’s immaculated. “I believe if our government’s there to support you and give you the assistance you need to retool and make this transition, that this plant will be here for another hundred years.” Well, he’s implying that if I am there — if I’m the government — I’m gonna support you; and I’m gonna give you the assistance you need to retool and keep this place open for a hundred years.

    That’s what the people at the factory thought he meant.

    June 2008: “General Motors announced Janesville would stop production of medium-duty trucks by the end of 2009 and stop production of large SUVs in 2010 or sooner.” Any wonder why Obama let this place go? They’re making the cars he hates: Trucks and SUVs. In October of 2008, before the election, Obama said, “As president, I will lead an effort to retool plants like the GM facility in Janesville so that we can build the fuel-efficient cars of tomorrow, and create good-paying jobs in Wisconsin and across America.”

    So he promised, in October 2008, that he would retool that plant, get rid of the trucks and the SUVs, and start making “the fuel-efficient cars of tomorrow,” like the Volt. Then, in December of 2008, “General Motors idled production of SUVs at the Janesville plant. The truck manufacturing continued. So in December 2008, it’s open. In April of 2009, four months after Obama was immaculated, “GM shut down the production of the medium-size trucks.” In April 2009, it’s still open.

    January 31st, a week or ten days after Obama is immaculated, it’s open and producing trucks. He has promised to keep it open, to retool it to make whatever his efficiency cars are. So Ryan is right. The point is, Ryan’s right. Ryan did not lie about anything. “In September 2011, more than two years after Obama was inaugurated, General Motors reiterated that Janesville is on a standby status. An automobile industry observer, David Cole, told the Milwaukee Journal, ‘It would be premature to say that the plant will never reopen.'”

    So it wasn’t bulldozed. Manufacturing was ceased, but it was still there as a factory, perhaps to be reborn. Today, it has not been reborn. It has not been retooled. There are no fuel-efficient cars or SUVs or trucks being made at the plant. So Paul Ryan was dead-on right, as right as anybody can be. Obama was gonna save it with green technology. He was gonna save it with green energy! He was gonna turn it into a Solyndra. It just didn’t happen. They’re falling flat right on their faces trying to say Ryan lied about this.”

    BUT, Obama never did make this plant the part of the GM bailout and retool it to make fuel efficient cars.

    ANOTHER Obummer failure.


  11. Joe Killeen said at 4:15 pm on August 30th, 2012:

    BZZZZZZZZZZZZT- sorry but I cannot decipher what the heck you are trying to say.
    Can you slow down the fingers and use the brain pan a little more.
    How could Paul Ryan be correct whatever point you are trying to make- he voted in favor of the federal auto bailout, no matter what he said then or now. It was Mitt who said don’t bail them out, he had private equity money ready to swarm in and pick up the US auto industry for a song.

  12. Joe Killeen said at 4:19 pm on August 30th, 2012:

    Brian- I hesitate to ask you a direct question because it seems to inspire crowding up on the question, almost like volunteer help for the handicapped, but what does your reference to women who might attend the Democratic Convention next week, have to do with wearing “headgear”?
    Consider your answer a serious attempt to inform the uninformed. Thanks.

  13. Poor Joey Boy said at 4:23 pm on August 30th, 2012:

    Talk about the pot calling the kettle black (ooops, another racist rant) it is you who is undecipherable all of the time.

    I only cut and pasted a link and a quote to rebut Bobbie Boy’s charge that the plant didn’t close under Obummer. In fact, the Dear Leader inferred that he was going to help the plant…


    It is THEE who is off on a tangent again. You may now go back to sticking your head in the sand.

  14. Joe Killeen said at 4:28 pm on August 30th, 2012:

    BZZZZZZZZZZZZT/Poor Joey Boy- etc. etc. My head and my identity has never been in the sand. You are going to wind up with a very poor rating from the “We Built It” crowd if you keep dodging who you actually are. How is anyone going to know “Who Built” your trenchant and logical defense of Republican positions? Just saying that everybody in Tampa is coming out of the closet and it may be time for you as well.

  15. Joe Killeen said at 4:48 pm on August 30th, 2012:

    I owe Art Gallagher and More Monmouth Musings participants a heartfelt thank you.
    I, like most people, who don’t keep score with a calculator alone, have other categories to self rate my active, every day, in public and private,life. Participating in and being called to task for perceived or inherent failings has given me the incentive to look more closely at what I think and how I convey those thoughts to others.
    I am not as indecipherable as claimed, nor am I a partisan Democrat repeating the party line. I have taken to heart that I had and still possess a way with the written word, much more so than I am capable of face to face, in conversation, my younger, rougher, no holds bar persona, takes hold then.
    Thank you, thank you very much.
    Now Brian what the heck does wearing headgear have to do with women attending the Democratic convention next week, inquiring minds want to know.

  16. Whatever floats your boat Joey Boy said at 4:49 pm on August 30th, 2012:

    As I said, it is NOT my name that matters; it is the issues and facts that matters.

    You guys are just looking for a name to demonize like MSNBC is looking to call every Republican a racist.

    But back to your comment, your head is in the sand as far as the issues and truth. But hey, that’s your problem. I just love driving libwits nuts with my lack of identity.

  17. Admiral BZZZZZZZZZZZT said at 4:54 pm on August 30th, 2012:

    As I said is not going to help your “We Built It” rating but to each his own. I am not driven nuts by your lack of an identity. I figure that’s you problem that you need to deal with it on your own in your own time. What you have to offer to others in their quest for the right questions and answers is easily apparent, whatever name you choose at the moment.

  18. Whatever said at 5:07 pm on August 30th, 2012:

    Joey, Whatever.

    Is this short enough of a comment for you to finally understand the words, ” I Don’t Care?”

  19. Bob English said at 5:21 pm on August 30th, 2012:

    There was nothing that Obama could have done about the Janesville GM plant. GM had announced the plants closing months before Obama took office. By the time he took office remaining assembly lines had been or were being shut down as they finished their last runs (last one was in April of 2009).

    Obama never promised anything regarding this particular plant nor could he. As reported in early 2008, what he said was: ”I believe that if our government is there to support you, and give you the assistance you need to re-tool and make this transition, that this plant will be here for another hundred years.” As Politifact writes, “That’s a statement of belief that, with government help, the Janesville plant could remain open — but not a promise to keep it open.”

    The whole idea of any new President being able to dictate that a GM plant already being closed should remain open is kind of nutty anyway (espeically in this case where the plant was alredy being shut down due to restructuring and declining business.) The hard facts of life is that the US auto industry had too much capacity and not enough sales and some plants were going to close as a condition of the auto bailout.

    To Paul Ryans credit he was trying to find ways to get GM to keep the plant open with a more agressive bailout proposal in 2008. When that did not happen though the plant was finished.

    Going back to my original post, its very weird that now the Romeny/Ryan campaign is now trying to blame this plant closing on Obama when Romney was the one (“Let Detroit Go Bankrupt”) who was against any kind of bailout. Funny how Ryan also conveniently forgets to tell people that the plant was already being shut down when Obama took office.

    At any rate, if you compare Obama’s record on the auto industry bailout to what Romeny wanted to do, Obama wins hands down every time.

  20. Joe Killeen said at 5:46 pm on August 30th, 2012:

    Bob English- as I mentioned once before on this site your continued attempts to talk logic and facts in the face of the personal nonsense thrown back at you is commendable.
    Now to risk being thought indecipherable once more I am going to add the following news headline from some where other than Tampa.

    The two largest electricity utilities in Germany – E.ON and RWE – have declared they will build no more fossil fuel generation plants because they are not needed, challenging a widespread belief that the phasing out of nuclear in Europe’s most industrialised economy will require more coal-fired generation to be built.

    This is not an isolated news release. The rest of the world except Russia and some recently liberated Eastern European land masses with ex tractable fossil fuel resources have been spending the last decade researching, testing and implementing numerous types of alternative energy production.
    While we are involved in deciding who holds the answer to return “America to its rightful place in the world…..” the definition of rightful and the world has changed and continues to change.
    Germany had enough economic strength without any military strength to be the mainstay of the Eurozone interim survival process.
    What Germany, China, Japan etc understand is that the paradigm is changing that the future belongs to the nimble and innovative, to those not locked into a constant fight over who controls the remains of the dinosaurs and their environment. That the industry and economy that has grown up on the back of fossil fuels and exists today, is not going away tomorrow, but could be by the day after.
    That the future and well being of their economies and the continuance and stabilization of rest of the world depends upon the creation of a new, innovative and sustainable economy.
    Not the same old economy that fights among itself for the fumes of protected and ransomed, boots on the ground, well heads.
    Or the “leases” on public property and water ways that are the centerpiece of the same old story from those who want the easy, same old and proven wrong, answers from the smart money boys.

  21. @ Bobby Boy said at 8:23 pm on August 30th, 2012:

    “At any rate, if you compare Obama’s record on the auto industry bailout to what Romeny wanted to do, Obama wins hands down every time.”


    Before the Country goes belly up under Obummer would be nice, but given the chance, Dear Leader will default on those loans. Hence, NO MORE YEARS